Marts wrote:

> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...0122-mq0r.html

> What do you think? Will the likes of Nokia's smartphones with free
> turn-by-turn nav software kill off the likes of TomTom and Garmin?

I doubt it, if only because the screens are so much smaller etc.

> The main thing that I see about using a dedicated
> navigator is that it has a larger touch screen

Yep.

> and has more features than what the mobiles have to offer.

Yep, particularly voice command. I mostly use it for garage sales
with me being the only person in the car and its a nuisance to have
to stop to change stuff in an itinery as you zoom around the sales.

> My wife's N95 has maps that I downloaded that cover the US
> (New York), England and Paris as well as all of Australia.
> However, without A-GPS enabled, it takes a while to get a signal.

Yeah, the tomtom is much better there. Corse I did deliberately
buy the tomtom because it does much better than most.

> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
> an internet connection, which consumes data.

Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.

> And all this costs extra.

Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.

> But this latest development means that it may work
> as a standalone unit. Something that I'll check out.

> Thing is, the screen is smaller than my Mio's 3.5" screen. So it's harder to read.

Yeah, and thats a significant consideration when zooming
around in the car with you as the only person in the car.

> For iPhone owners, they have to pay $100 for the software plus more for the holder.

I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.

Its very convenient to be able to just pick it up when fiddling with the itinery etc.

> It becomes an expensive exercise compared to spending $180 on a Tom Tom One.

I use the top of the line tomtoms instead.

Derick P Burns wrote
> Rod Speed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>> Marts wrote

>>> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...0122-mq0r.html

>>> What do you think? Will the likes of Nokia's smartphones with free
>>> turn-by-turn nav software kill off the likes of TomTom and Garmin?

>> I doubt it, if only because the screens are so much smaller etc.

>>> The main thing that I see about using a dedicated
>>> navigator is that it has a larger touch screen

>> Yep.

>>> and has more features than what the mobiles have to offer.

>> Yep, particularly voice command. I mostly use it for garage sales
>> with me being the only person in the car and its a nuisance to have
>> to stop to change stuff in an itinery as you zoom around the sales.

>>> My wife's N95 has maps that I downloaded that cover the US
>>> (New York), England and Paris as well as all of Australia.
>>> However, without A-GPS enabled, it takes a while to get a signal.

>> Yeah, the tomtom is much better there. Corse I did deliberately
>> buy the tomtom because it does much better than most.

>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.

>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.

>>> And all this costs extra.

>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.

>>> But this latest development means that it may work
>>> as a standalone unit. Something that I'll check out.

>>> Thing is, the screen is smaller than my Mio's 3.5" screen. So it's harder to read.

>> Yeah, and thats a significant consideration when zooming
>> around in the car with you as the only person in the car.

>>> For iPhone owners, they have to pay $100 for the software plus more for the holder.

>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.

>> Its very convenient to be able to just pick it up when fiddling with the itinery etc.

>>> It becomes an expensive exercise compared to spending $180 on a Tom Tom One.

>> I use the top of the line tomtoms instead.

> I have a top of the line TomTom and also had at one stage a mobile
> with TomTom navigation software on it. I much prefer a dedicated
> navigator as it is easier to use, has more features and it can be used
> as a Blutooth hands free for the mobile.

Yeah, I much prefer the address entry method that the tomtoms
use over the other dedicated GPS I have, a Navig8r M34.

I do prefer google tho, because you dont have to bother to tell
it the town, you can just enter the street name when doing itinerys
for yard sales where they are mostly in the same town etc.

The tomtoms have an odd system where with the roads out of town,
you have to enter the region as a pseudo town and its not always
possible to predict in advance when its going to want the region and
when it wants the town name with my quite high density rural farms
that are out of town itself.

I basically do that itinery for the weekend's yard sales google first,
mainly because the map display is rather better when google when
doing the routing to minimise the route distances, and then enter it
into the tomtom manually for use on the road. I should get off my
arse and automate the transfer of the google itinery to the tomtom
which has been done already, just havent got around to it.

Google is obviously more up to date in theory, but just found two
that it didnt have last weekend, and no way to update like you get
with the latest tomtoms. Both of the problems was in the council pdf street map.

Marts wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.

>>>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>>>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.

>>> And all this costs extra.

>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.

> Haven't done this with a TT,

I have.

> but I do have the TT software and latest maps on a third party GPS. Works a treat.

Does on a real tomtom too.

>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.

> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.

Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:21:44 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Marts wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>>>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.
>
>>>>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>>>>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.
>
>>>> And all this costs extra.
>
>>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.
>
>> Haven't done this with a TT,
>
>I have.
>
>> but I do have the TT software and latest maps on a third party GPS. Works a treat.
>
>Does on a real tomtom too.
>
>>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.
>
>> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
>> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.
>
>Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.
>

I would .. and I think you'll find that as part of the definition of
"commercially available" would include that the mount is fixed so as
to not become a missile in an accident.

"Jack Simmons" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:21:44 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Marts wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>
>>>>>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>>>>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.
>>
>>>>>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>>>>>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.
>>
>>>>> And all this costs extra.
>>
>>>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.
>>
>>> Haven't done this with a TT,
>>
>>I have.
>>
>>> but I do have the TT software and latest maps on a third party GPS.
>>> Works a treat.
>>
>>Does on a real tomtom too.
>>
>>>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>>>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>>>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.
>>
>>> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
>>> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.
>>
>>Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.
>>
>
> I would .. and I think you'll find that as part of the definition of
> "commercially available" would include that the mount is fixed so as
> to not become a missile in an accident.

I think that's correct; see

http://www.roadrules.vicroads.vic.go...lay_units.html

Jack Simmons wrote
> Rod Speed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>> Marts wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>>>>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.

>>>>>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>>>>>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.

>>>>> And all this costs extra.

>>>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.

>>> Haven't done this with a TT,

>> I have.

>>> but I do have the TT software and latest maps on a third party GPS.
>>> Works a treat.

>> Does on a real tomtom too.

>>>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>>>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>>>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.

>>> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
>>> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.

>> Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.

> I would ..

You would what ?

> and I think you'll find that as part of the definition of "commercially available"
> would include that the mount is fixed so as to not become a missile in an accident.

Those friction mats are so light that they cant possibly become a missile in an accident.

Rod Speed wrote:
> Jack Simmons wrote
>> Rod Speed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>> Marts wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>>>>>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.
>
>>>>>>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>>>>>>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.
>
>>>>>> And all this costs extra.
>
>>>>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.
>
>>>> Haven't done this with a TT,
>
>>> I have.
>
>>>> but I do have the TT software and latest maps on a third party GPS.
>>>> Works a treat.
>
>>> Does on a real tomtom too.
>
>>>>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>>>>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>>>>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.
>
>>>> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
>>>> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.
>
>>> Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.
>
>> I would ..
>
> You would what ?
>
>> and I think you'll find that as part of the definition of "commercially available"
>> would include that the mount is fixed so as to not become a missile in an accident.
>
> Those friction mats are so light that they cant possibly become a missile in an accident.
>
>
The mat won't cause a problem, but the gps unit or whatever else might
be resting on the mat probably will, as the mat doesn't secure it to the
vehicle structure.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Lurker wrote
> Jack Simmons <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>> Rod Speed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>> Marts wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>>>>>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.

>>>>>>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>>>>>>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.

>>>>>> And all this costs extra.

>>>>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.

>>>> Haven't done this with a TT,

>>> I have.

>>>> but I do have the TT software and latest maps on a third party GPS.
>>>> Works a treat.

>>> Does on a real tomtom too.

>>>>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>>>>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>>>>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.

>>>> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
>>>> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.

>>> Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.

>> I would .. and I think you'll find that as part of the definition of
>> "commercially available" would include that the mount is fixed so as
>> to not become a missile in an accident.

> I think that's correct; see

> http://www.roadrules.vicroads.vic.go...lay_units.html

As I thought, he stuffed up completely. There is the tiny matter of the OR on the end of the first line.

a.. is secured in a commercially designed holder fixed to the vehicle,or
b.. can be operated by the driver without touching any part of the body of the phone.

"Rod Speed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Lurker wrote
>> Jack Simmons <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>> Marts wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>

<snip>

>>>>>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>>>>>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>>>>>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.
>
>>>>> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
>>>>> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.
>
>>>> Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.
>
>>> I would .. and I think you'll find that as part of the definition of
>>> "commercially available" would include that the mount is fixed so as
>>> to not become a missile in an accident.
>
>> I think that's correct; see
>
>> http://www.roadrules.vicroads.vic.go...lay_units.html
>
> As I thought, he stuffed up completely. There is the tiny matter of the OR
> on the end of the first line.
>
> a.. is secured in a commercially designed holder fixed to the vehicle,or
> b.. can be operated by the driver without touching any part of the body
> of the phone.
>
Those provisos apply to "Mobile phones" and you omitted the next line
"Using a phone as a GPS while driving is prohibited unless it is secured in
a commercially designed holder fixed to the vehicle."

Further on: "A driver can use a driver's aid such as a navigation device but
it must be an integrated part of the vehicle design, or secured in a
commercially designed holder, which is fixed to the vehicle."

I think he (whoever, I've lost track of the quoting) was correct in saying
that _if_used_as_a_GPS <quote>in Vic. GPS and phones have to be securely
mounted in a "commercially available" holder</quote> which is "fixed to the
vehicle" (the bit about becoming a missile seems to be speculation on
reasons for the rules, not part of the rules).

IMHO that bars use of the friction mat things. I don't think they _should_
be barred (I use one myself), but I think the rules are clear. Fortunately
(for me!) I'm in the UK so those rules don't apply to me.

A Lurker

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 05:14:21 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Jack Simmons wrote
>> Rod Speed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>> Marts wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>>>> Plus, for voice guidance to be enabled it needs
>>>>>>>> an internet connection, which consumes data.
>
>>>>>>> Yep, tho more up to date than any dedicated GPS can be,
>>>>>>> quite apart from the cost of updating the maps in the GPS.
>
>>>>>> And all this costs extra.
>
>>>>> Yep, and if you have a clue, updated maps in a dedicated GPS dont.
>
>>>> Haven't done this with a TT,
>
>>> I have.
>
>>>> but I do have the TT software and latest maps on a third party GPS.
>>>> Works a treat.
>
>>> Does on a real tomtom too.
>
>>>>> I dont bother with the holder with the tomtom, use one of
>>>>> those friction mat things that cost quite literally peanuts and
>>>>> have it on the dash, even tho it does come with a holder included.
>
>>>> This is no longer allowed in Vic. GPS and phones have to
>>>> be securely mounted in a "commercially available" holder.
>
>>> Dont believe that. And mine is commercially available anyway.
>
>> I would ..
>
>You would what ?
>
>> and I think you'll find that as part of the definition of "commercially available"
>> would include that the mount is fixed so as to not become a missile in an accident.
>
>Those friction mats are so light that they cant possibly become a missile in an accident.
>

the mats might be .. but the gps unit sure aint
either way, we have had more enlightened info on the law as it stands