Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some
observations please.

A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday. Using
the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly. Yet my
smartphone, an HTC Touch Pro 2 under Windows Mobile, also using Mem-Map,
kept it consistently.

Does that point to an inherent problem with the GPS function on the iPad?
If so, I'm wondering if the 1969 plane's engine, despite being
well-suppressed, could be causing interference that affects only the iPad
for some reason?

Or is it likely to be an issue with the iPad app? I'm inclined to suspect
so, as I have found it decidedly inferior to the WM version in several
respects. And - for anyone here who has the app - it frequently appears to
close spontaneously for no apparent reason, particularly when using
'second screen' features (accessed via the right hand arrow icon).

NOTE: Needless's to say, the Piper's own built-in GPS was flawless, no
doubt partly because of its external antenna.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote on Aug 16, 2011:

> Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some
> observations please.
>
> A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday. Using
> the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly. Yet my
> smartphone, an HTC Touch Pro 2 under Windows Mobile, also using Mem-Map,
> kept it consistently.
>
> Does that point to an inherent problem with the GPS function on the iPad?
> If so, I'm wondering if the 1969 plane's engine, despite being
> well-suppressed, could be causing interference that affects only the iPad
> for some reason?
>
> Or is it likely to be an issue with the iPad app? I'm inclined to suspect
> so, as I have found it decidedly inferior to the WM version in several
> respects. And - for anyone here who has the app - it frequently appears to
> close spontaneously for no apparent reason, particularly when using
> 'second screen' features (accessed via the right hand arrow icon).
>
> NOTE: Needless's to say, the Piper's own built-in GPS was flawless, no
> doubt partly because of its external antenna.
>
>

Do you have the "Wi-Fi + 3G" or the "WiFi only" model of the iPad?
AFAIK only the model with 3G has true GPS capability.

There's some discussion of the problem here:
http://tinyurl.com/33s4lvm

--
Mike Lane
UK North Yorkshire
mike_lane at mac dot com

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:49:38 +0100, Terry Pinnell
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some
>observations please.
>
>A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday. Using
>the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.

If you go again, ask the pilot to switch off the DME for a minute or
so to see if that helps. In my area, the home airfield DME setting of
108.9MHz swamps any handheld GPS in the cockpit by the oscillator
harmonics. Changing to another frequency cures the problem. It is
known about (since 1994). May not be your problem but it would
eliminate a known effect.

Geo <hw9j-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:49:38 +0100, Terry Pinnell
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some
>>observations please.
>>
>>A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday. Using
>>the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.
>
>If you go again, ask the pilot to switch off the DME for a minute or
>so to see if that helps. In my area, the home airfield DME setting of
>108.9MHz swamps any handheld GPS in the cockpit by the oscillator
>harmonics. Changing to another frequency cures the problem. It is
>known about (since 1994). May not be your problem but it would
>eliminate a known effect.

Thanks both.

My iPad is the 3G model.

Given that the smartphone was OK, I'm beginning to think the problem lies
in the flakey iPad Memory Map app.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

In message <(E-Mail Removed)> someone claiming
to be Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:

>Geo <hw9j-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:49:38 +0100, Terry Pinnell
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some
>>>observations please.
>>>
>>>A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday. Using
>>>the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.
>>
>>If you go again, ask the pilot to switch off the DME for a minute or
>>so to see if that helps. In my area, the home airfield DME setting of
>>108.9MHz swamps any handheld GPS in the cockpit by the oscillator
>>harmonics. Changing to another frequency cures the problem. It is
>>known about (since 1994). May not be your problem but it would
>>eliminate a known effect.
>
>Thanks both.
>
>My iPad is the 3G model.
>
>Given that the smartphone was OK, I'm beginning to think the problem lies
>in the flakey iPad Memory Map app.

You could rule that out by taking another GPS capable application with
you. It doesn't even need to show maps, just something that gives you a
readout of the GPS signal and your speed would be sufficient.

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.

Terry Pinnell wrote

> Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some
> observations please.

> A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday.
> Using the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.
> Yet my smartphone, an HTC Touch Pro 2 under Windows Mobile,
> also using Mem-Map, kept it consistently.

> Does that point to an inherent problem with the GPS function on the iPad?

More likely just that the antenna isnt as well done as on the HTC Touch Pro 2.

You get the same effect with dedicated GPSs, some do better
than others when in a weak signal area like that metal plane etc
where the ipad and HTC Touch Pro 2 arent up on the top of the
control panel with a clear view of the satellites thru the windscreen.

> If so, I'm wondering if the 1969 plane's engine, despite being
> well-suppressed, could be causing interference that affects only the
> iPad for some reason?

The only difference with plane engines of that era is that they do
use magnetos instead of the sort of ignition system seen with cars
of that era. Shouldnt make any difference to GPS performance
because the plane's electrical system is designed so that the
traditional nav instruments like VOR/DME and ADF arent affected.

ADF particularly is much more prone to ignition interference
just because the frequencys it uses are much lower etc.

> Or is it likely to be an issue with the iPad app?

Maybe. You'd need to see if there is any difference in the
satellites both can see. That isnt always done the same way.

> I'm inclined to suspect so, as I have found it decidedly inferior
> to the WM version in several respects. And - for anyone here
> who has the app - it frequently appears to close spontaneously
> for no apparent reason, particularly when using 'second screen'
> features (accessed via the right hand arrow icon).

Thats certainly possible.

> NOTE: Needless's to say, the Piper's own built-in GPS was
> flawless, no doubt partly because of its external antenna.

And the fact that its designed to much higher standards too.

DevilsPGD <Still-Just-A-Rat-In-A-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In message <(E-Mail Removed)> someone claiming
>to be Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>
>>Geo <hw9j-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:49:38 +0100, Terry Pinnell
>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some
>>>>observations please.
>>>>
>>>>A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday. Using
>>>>the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.
>>>
>>>If you go again, ask the pilot to switch off the DME for a minute or
>>>so to see if that helps. In my area, the home airfield DME setting of
>>>108.9MHz swamps any handheld GPS in the cockpit by the oscillator
>>>harmonics. Changing to another frequency cures the problem. It is
>>>known about (since 1994). May not be your problem but it would
>>>eliminate a known effect.
>>
>>Thanks both.
>>
>>My iPad is the 3G model.
>>
>>Given that the smartphone was OK, I'm beginning to think the problem lies
>>in the flakey iPad Memory Map app.
>
>You could rule that out by taking another GPS capable application with
>you. It doesn't even need to show maps, just something that gives you a
>readout of the GPS signal and your speed would be sufficient.

Good idea, thanks. And I would actually have been able to do that, as I
have several other such mapless apps on my iPad. But it was my first light
aircraft flight in several decades, so Mem-Map and my camera had me fairly
preoccupied!

On a more general point, is there a significant difference in GPS
reception sensitivity between the scores/hundreds of smartphones and
tablets now available? Or are they all much the same? And, as distinct
from 'sensitivity', is there a separate factor (or factors) that is known
to influence the capability of HOLDING a signal once it has it?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote
> DevilsPGD <Still-Just-A-Rat-In-A-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>> Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>> Geo <hw9j-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>> Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>>>>> Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some observations please.

>>>>> A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday.
>>>>> Using the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.

>>>> If you go again, ask the pilot to switch off the DME for a minute
>>>> or so to see if that helps. In my area, the home airfield DME
>>>> setting of 108.9MHz swamps any handheld GPS in the cockpit by the
>>>> oscillator harmonics. Changing to another frequency cures the
>>>> problem. It is known about (since 1994). May not be your problem
>>>> but it would eliminate a known effect.

>>> Thanks both.

>>> My iPad is the 3G model.

>>> Given that the smartphone was OK, I'm beginning to think the
>>> problem lies in the flakey iPad Memory Map app.

>> You could rule that out by taking another GPS capable application with
>> you. It doesn't even need to show maps, just something that gives you
>> a readout of the GPS signal and your speed would be sufficient.

> Good idea, thanks. And I would actually have been able to do that,
> as I have several other such mapless apps on my iPad. But it was
> my first light aircraft flight in several decades, so Mem-Map and
> my camera had me fairly preoccupied!

> On a more general point, is there a significant difference in GPS
> reception sensitivity between the scores/hundreds of smartphones and
> tablets now available?

Yes, just like there is with dedicated GPSs and with the GPS addons for GPSless devices.

> Or are they all much the same?

Nope. There has to be a difference in how the antenna alone is done.

> And, as distinct from 'sensitivity', is there a separate factor (or factors) that
> is known to influence the capability of HOLDING a signal once it has it?

Yep, there is some variation in how many satellites can be simultaneously acquired.

"Rod Speed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Terry Pinnell wrote
>> DevilsPGD <Still-Just-A-Rat-In-A-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>> Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>> Geo <hw9j-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>>> Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>>>>>> Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some observations please.
>
>>>>>> A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday.
>>>>>> Using the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.
>
>>>>> If you go again, ask the pilot to switch off the DME for a minute
>>>>> or so to see if that helps. In my area, the home airfield DME
>>>>> setting of 108.9MHz swamps any handheld GPS in the cockpit by the
>>>>> oscillator harmonics. Changing to another frequency cures the
>>>>> problem. It is known about (since 1994). May not be your problem
>>>>> but it would eliminate a known effect.
>
>>>> Thanks both.
>
>>>> My iPad is the 3G model.
>
>>>> Given that the smartphone was OK, I'm beginning to think the
>>>> problem lies in the flakey iPad Memory Map app.
>
>>> You could rule that out by taking another GPS capable application with
>>> you. It doesn't even need to show maps, just something that gives you
>>> a readout of the GPS signal and your speed would be sufficient.
>
>> Good idea, thanks. And I would actually have been able to do that,
>> as I have several other such mapless apps on my iPad. But it was
>> my first light aircraft flight in several decades, so Mem-Map and
>> my camera had me fairly preoccupied!
>
>> On a more general point, is there a significant difference in GPS
>> reception sensitivity between the scores/hundreds of smartphones and
>> tablets now available?
>
>Yes, just like there is with dedicated GPSs and with the GPS addons for GPSless devices.
>
>> Or are they all much the same?
>
>Nope. There has to be a difference in how the antenna alone is done.
>
>> And, as distinct from 'sensitivity', is there a separate factor (or factors) that
>> is known to influence the capability of HOLDING a signal once it has it?
>
>Yep, there is some variation in how many satellites can be simultaneously acquired.
>

Thanks Rod.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 20/08/2011 12:39 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> "Rod Speed"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Terry Pinnell wrote
>>> DevilsPGD<Still-Just-A-Rat-In-A-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>> Terry Pinnell<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>>> Geo<hw9j-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>>>> Terry Pinnell<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>
>>>>>>> Sorry if this is OT for this group, but maybe someone has some observations please.
>>
>>>>>>> A friend took me for a flight in his Piper PA28 Cherokee yesterday.
>>>>>>> Using the Memory-Map app, my ipAd lost the GPS signal regularly.
>>
>>>>>> If you go again, ask the pilot to switch off the DME for a minute
>>>>>> or so to see if that helps. In my area, the home airfield DME
>>>>>> setting of 108.9MHz swamps any handheld GPS in the cockpit by the
>>>>>> oscillator harmonics. Changing to another frequency cures the
>>>>>> problem. It is known about (since 1994). May not be your problem
>>>>>> but it would eliminate a known effect.
>>
>>>>> Thanks both.
>>
>>>>> My iPad is the 3G model.
>>
>>>>> Given that the smartphone was OK, I'm beginning to think the
>>>>> problem lies in the flakey iPad Memory Map app.
>>
>>>> You could rule that out by taking another GPS capable application with
>>>> you. It doesn't even need to show maps, just something that gives you
>>>> a readout of the GPS signal and your speed would be sufficient.
>>
>>> Good idea, thanks. And I would actually have been able to do that,
>>> as I have several other such mapless apps on my iPad. But it was
>>> my first light aircraft flight in several decades, so Mem-Map and
>>> my camera had me fairly preoccupied!
>>
>>> On a more general point, is there a significant difference in GPS
>>> reception sensitivity between the scores/hundreds of smartphones and
>>> tablets now available?
>>
>> Yes, just like there is with dedicated GPSs and with the GPS addons for GPSless devices.
>>
>>> Or are they all much the same?
>>
>> Nope. There has to be a difference in how the antenna alone is done.
>>
>>> And, as distinct from 'sensitivity', is there a separate factor (or factors) that
>>> is known to influence the capability of HOLDING a signal once it has it?
>>
>> Yep, there is some variation in how many satellites can be simultaneously acquired.
>>
>
> Thanks Rod.
>
The correct response is thanks for a frantic google and passing of copy
and paste with understanding

--
X-No-Archive: Yes