Discovery Channel has a show on called Hell Roads. (It will be on
again Feb 4 and Feb 5). One of the roads is the Tail of The Dragon in
North Carolina with something like 300 turns in 20 miles.

One of the big problems is an increase in use by tractor-trailer rigs
because the gps tell them it is a shortcut. My guess is the drivers
are using the low priced auto use models rather than the specialty
units.

Seems as though the trucks cannot make the turns and stay in one lane
and on coming traffic comes around the corner and they get wiped out.
See it here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16YnmJN0fc

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:32:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>Discovery Channel has a show on called Hell Roads. (It will be on
>again Feb 4 and Feb 5). One of the roads is the Tail of The Dragon in
>North Carolina with something like 300 turns in 20 miles.

318 in 11 miles, but who's counting? :-)

>One of the big problems is an increase in use by tractor-trailer rigs
>because the gps tell them it is a shortcut. My guess is the drivers
>are using the low priced auto use models rather than the specialty
>units.
>
>Seems as though the trucks cannot make the turns and stay in one lane
>and on coming traffic comes around the corner and they get wiped out.
>See it here
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16YnmJN0fc

I drove the Dragon a year and a half ago, but I wasn't on the bike at
the time. It's a nice road, but I don't think it's at all deserving of
the reputation it has for being great. If pressed, I could name a half
dozen other roads that are as good when it comes to curves, but better
because they are wider and mostly have actual shoulders, and they
aren't full of trucks like the Dragon is getting to be. Oh, and they
aren't full of law enforcement, like the Dragon is getting to be.

The day I was there, I had to stop at one point to let a tow truck
drag a semi truck through a curve. The driver couldn't make the tight
curve, tried to back up to get a better angle, and only made things
worse. Having said all of that, I like TV programs like this. I agree
with the assessment that truckers are probably getting sucked in by
their GPS, thinking it's a shortcut. Once they're on the road, there's
no turning around. Signage or truck restrictions would be nice.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:28:40 -0600, Sunshine <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:



>>See it here
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16YnmJN0fc
>
>I drove the Dragon a year and a half ago, but I wasn't on the bike at
>the time. It's a nice road, but I don't think it's at all deserving of
>the reputation it has for being great.

This show focused more on the deaths, but it seems most are self
inflicted. There can be a fine line between crazy and fun. In most
cases the accidents could be avoided by slowing down.



>
>The day I was there, I had to stop at one point to let a tow truck
>drag a semi truck through a curve. The driver couldn't make the tight
>curve, tried to back up to get a better angle, and only made things
>worse. Having said all of that, I like TV programs like this. I agree
>with the assessment that truckers are probably getting sucked in by
>their GPS, thinking it's a shortcut. Once they're on the road, there's
>no turning around. Signage or truck restrictions would be nice.

At this point, I cannot imaging NOT having huge sign restricting
trucks. A few months ago I was on a two lane road in Italy and when I
reached an intersection, the road I chose had signs for no trucks or
busses. I took the road and could not understand why the restriction.
About 5 miles later, I was squeezing between two buildings and around
a corner. Oh, that's why.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Ed Pawlowski <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> One of the big problems is an increase in use by tractor-trailer rigs
> because the gps tell them it is a shortcut. My guess is the drivers
> are using the low priced auto use models rather than the specialty
> units.

My guess as well.

Although, the Garmin units that are designed for OTR trucks aren't
particlarly expensive, so it may just be ignorance.

You could spend $200 on an auto model, or $250 on a trucking
model--complete with lifetime maps and traffic.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:32:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>Discovery Channel has a show on called Hell Roads. (It will be on
>again Feb 4 and Feb 5). One of the roads is the Tail of The Dragon in
>North Carolina with something like 300 turns in 20 miles.
>
>One of the big problems is an increase in use by tractor-trailer rigs
>because the gps tell them it is a shortcut. My guess is the drivers
>are using the low priced auto use models rather than the specialty
>units.
>
>Seems as though the trucks cannot make the turns and stay in one lane
>and on coming traffic comes around the corner and they get wiped out.
>See it here
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16YnmJN0fc

Just watched the video. We have much more difficult roads here
in and near the Alps. But the locals usually know how to drive
safely, and so the accidents don't seem excessive.

At least one road here (the one serpentining up the mountain to
Urfeld at the Walchensee) is prohibited for bicycles on
weekends, but of course I still see some there.

Of course, all of these roads could be driven perfectly safely
if the drivers drove sensibly. The road itself is not dangerous,
stupid drivers are.

Hans-Georg

Hans-Georg Michna <hans-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:32:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>Discovery Channel has a show on called Hell Roads. (It will be on
>>again Feb 4 and Feb 5). One of the roads is the Tail of The Dragon in
>>North Carolina with something like 300 turns in 20 miles.
>>
>>One of the big problems is an increase in use by tractor-trailer rigs
>>because the gps tell them it is a shortcut. My guess is the drivers
>>are using the low priced auto use models rather than the specialty
>>units.
>>
>>Seems as though the trucks cannot make the turns and stay in one lane
>>and on coming traffic comes around the corner and they get wiped out.
>>See it here
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16YnmJN0fc
>
> Just watched the video. We have much more difficult roads here
> in and near the Alps. But the locals usually know how to drive
> safely, and so the accidents don't seem excessive.
>
> At least one road here (the one serpentining up the mountain to
> Urfeld at the Walchensee) is prohibited for bicycles on
> weekends, but of course I still see some there.
>
> Of course, all of these roads could be driven perfectly safely
> if the drivers drove sensibly. The road itself is not dangerous,
> stupid drivers are.
>
> Hans-Georg

As a kid in the late 50'/early '60s, we went to Italy on vacation. One
of the ways back was through Switzerland, via the Gotthard Pass. On the
south side was a series of some 40 hairpin curves. One time we were
stuck behind a big Italian touring bus that couldn't get around the
hairpins in one try, because the curves were too sharp. Everyone of the
40 hairpins had to be taken forward, back, and forward again. As usual
in August in Switzerland, it was raining too, and BUSY!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:33:33 +0100, Hans-Georg Michna
<hans-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Of course, all of these roads could be driven perfectly safely
>if the drivers drove sensibly. The road itself is not dangerous,
>stupid drivers are.
>
>Hans-Georg

Some roads are as well. Have you never went around a bend and found an off
camber turn that was not expected and had no warning? I have. Not fun on a
Motorcycle.

--
Larry
In Citrus County Florida.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:32:27 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:33:33 +0100, Hans-Georg Michna
><hans-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>Of course, all of these roads could be driven perfectly safely
>>if the drivers drove sensibly. The road itself is not dangerous,
>>stupid drivers are.

>Some roads are as well. Have you never went around a bend and found an off
>camber turn that was not expected and had no warning? I have. Not fun on a
>Motorcycle.

The obvious rule is that you have to drive such that you can
easily stop your vehicle on that part of the road which you are
currently seeing. In other words, you have to be able to stop in
time in the worst case, which is an obstacle hidden behind the
next bend.

Actually the very worst case is oncoming traffic on the wrong,
i.e. your, side of the road, but we commonly take that risk,
trusting the other drivers. A truck that has to drive on the
wrong side of the road is probably slow, so it should not be as
much of a problem.

Motorcycles are no exception, riders have to follow the same
rule. If anything, they have to be even more careful, because
they lack the protection of the passenger cell of a car.

Also, motorcycles cannot swerve as suddenly as a car can,
because they first have to steer to the left to tilt the cycle
to the right, before they can steer a right curve, and vice
versa. They are not as maneuverable as a car.

Hans-Georg

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
> The obvious rule is that you have to drive such that you can
> easily stop your vehicle on that part of the road which you are
> currently seeing. In other words, you have to be able to stop in
> time in the worst case, which is an obstacle hidden behind the
> next bend.

Some years ago my way was blocked by a truck manoeuvring just after I had
rounded a bend. Realising that it might take a while, I reversed back round
the bend so that I could be seen and would not be hit by another driver who
had assumed the road would be clear...

Mike.
--
If reply address is Mike@@mjcoon.+.com (invalid), remove spurious "@"
and substitute "plus" for +.

On 01/30/2012 06:28 AM, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:32:27 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>><hans-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>Of course, all of these roads could be driven perfectly safely
>>>if the drivers drove sensibly. The road itself is not dangerous,
>>>stupid drivers are.
>
>>Some roads are as well. Have you never went around a bend and found an off
>>camber turn that was not expected and had no warning? I have. Not fun on a
>>Motorcycle.

OTOH, if the amount of road allocated to you suddenly necks down to 3
feet from an edge, you're better off on a bike! On the road to Big Bear
Lake (California) there's a lovely collapsing-radius curve which
regularly slings cars off the road. Fortunately the road people put a
nice wide blacktop apron in exactly the right place to protect the unwary.

> The obvious rule is that you have to drive such that you can
> easily stop your vehicle on that part of the road which you are
> currently seeing. In other words, you have to be able to stop in
> time in the worst case, which is an obstacle hidden behind the
> next bend.

That's my instinct, but when I'm tired and want to get home quickly I
tend to be a bit less careful.

> Actually the very worst case is oncoming traffic on the wrong,
> i.e. your, side of the road, but we commonly take that risk,
> trusting the other drivers. A truck that has to drive on the
> wrong side of the road is probably slow, so it should not be as
> much of a problem.
>
> Motorcycles are no exception, riders have to follow the same
> rule. If anything, they have to be even more careful, because
> they lack the protection of the passenger cell of a car.

They don't call them 'cagers' for nothing!

> Also, motorcycles cannot swerve as suddenly as a car can,
> because they first have to steer to the left to tilt the cycle
> to the right, before they can steer a right curve, and vice
> versa. They are not as maneuverable as a car.

I'm not sure about that. I never mastered the art of counter-steering
(basic clumsiness and, having done so more than once, an unwillingness
to throw myself to the ground) but I think motorcycles can both turn and
stop faster than cars. Motorcycles used to win the Baja 1000 until more
and more of the route became actual straightish road, and a motorcycle
can easily outrun a car on a twisty mountain road.

--
Cheers, Bev
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ =+=
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the
majority, but to be insane in such a useful way that
they can't commit you." -- Mark Edwards